MSU Extension 4-H Volunteering & Mentoring

All right. I would like to welcome everyone to our Michigan Four H Webinar, Four H volunteer webinar for March. That's going to look at group management for four, for four H clubs and groups. We really want to thank our early childhood colleagues for the support for some of the content that we are sharing today. I am Christine Healy, an extension educator, and use the pronouns she, her hers. I am based in Clinton County and I'm on our volunteer team and I work on volunteer training and support for the state of Michigan. And I will let my co presenter give her a quick introduction. Hi everyone. I'm Lorie Veto, pronoun she her hers. I'm also an extension educator. I'm based in Wayne County, just outside Detroit. And I'm on a work team that does career exploration and workforce readiness topics. And we've been with extension for over 17 years now. And we are so excited for you all to be with us and spend part of potentially your lunch hour with us. And we will hope for some engagement from you all. Msu Extension believes fully in the principles of diversity, equity, inclusion. We know that human differences enrich our lives, work in community, we embrace a responsibility to be a resource for all and are committed to providing a program to all segments of our community. It's important to understand the longstanding history and legacy of colonialism that has brought us all to reside in the land and seek to understand our place within that history And the land acknowledgment on the screen is one step in the process. Laurie has put into the chat a quick demographic survey that helps us show how we are meeting the different demographics across the state of Michigan. If you're comfortable, we ask that you please complete it if you're at, but if you're attending in your role as an MSU extension employee, please don't complete it. Only those who are attending in a role that's a volunteer in their volunteer capacities. All right. So this has been part of a volunteer webinar series that we have done over 2,023.24 We have a variety of different topics that are still coming up this year. And we also have recordings for all the past topics. Within the chat, you can see the link that leads you to the landing page of where all of the recordings are housed. All the registrations are housed for how to register for upcoming ones. The dates are set for the ones that are happening in April and May, but then they'll be a whole bunch more that start up back in September, so we'll take the summer off, but feel free to watch any of the recordings or register for any of the ones that you might be interested in. And I'm going to kick us off with our welcome and ice breaker. Of course, we're really excited to have you join us. We are going to cover a few key ideas as part of this presentation on group management. We're also going to have space for conversation at the end and idea sharing, as Christine mentioned, it won't be recorded, but we'll have a chance for that opportunity because there's a lot of collective wisdom in all of us and there's not some set special answer for group management and managing group dynamics. We'd love to hear other people's ideas as we go along. Let's start with an icebreaker though, to get to know each other. What is your favorite part about working with young people? Go ahead and put that in the chat. What is your favorite part about working with young people? Watching them grow and learn. Thank you. Seeing their task at hand from a different perspective and it's a learn learn situation usually. I love that. Love seeing them spark. Yes. Engage in activities and I learn from them for sure. Seeing that a couple times, I learn something new every day. Watching their enthusiasm for their project area grow. Seeing that a moment. Yeah, I like to see that light. Seeing the excitement for their projects, their energy, their excitement. These are wonderful. Yeah. It can bring us a lot of joy and benefit ourselves in interacting with young people. Watching the older ones, helping the younger ones succeed. Wonderful. These are great. There's a lot of intrinsic benefits that we get as well, being able to help young people grow and develop. And I appreciate you sharing those ideas in. Ah, we get the opportunity to work with youth in many non formal settings. These spaces can provide youth with a place to belong, matter, and explore their sparks. With solid group management practices, we can provide a nourishing place where youth can belong and grow. Group management is not about controlling the youth, but making the use of your skill set and interactions to help youth develop their skills and thrive in that space. It's really about giving them the opportunities to really thrive, find a spark, a belonging, relationships and engagement. It's not about controlling everything they do, but giving them those opportunities to really grow. We know that in order for youth to find their spark, a safe environment, and positive feedback and encouragement is needed. The ideas that we share today include how to encourage versus praise can create a space where youth find that passion and brings their growth and development into their lives. Yeah, we had a couple more comments in the chat about cooperation and enjoy seeing that and watching young people engage with each other and how much fun they can have. I think that relates a little bit to some of these basics of working with young people. When we think about it, these basics on the screen of power, respect, and attention can relate to youth at any age. Honestly often relate to us in group settings. When you think about it, the reality is youth or any of us really, we want some power in situations, right? We want some autonomy. We want choice. We want to feel like we're active participants and engaged in the process, which is the tenement of the four H program, right? Is having young people be participants in the program. So having that autonomy and choice that some power in the dynamics is important is an important thing to remember. Respect is also a component. So none of us, including youth, want to be talked down to. We want to be heard. They want to be heard. They want to have attention. They want to be given. Recognition, be seen. Sometimes that's where we get that situation where young people are trying to get attention through negative behaviors. Because negative attention is better than no attention at all. Remembering that sometimes behavior choices can also be a way of just getting attention considering ways that we're engaging you so that they have the attention, the need for positive things, not necessarily having to resort to those negative choices. Then, if we talk about attention in terms of attention span, we know attention span can be short for all of us. But definitely for our young people, the rule of thumb is generally about two to 3 minutes times the age of a young person would be their attention span, two to 3 minutes times their age, and considering having breaks in there and not having anything for too long. So that there's breaks in there for changing the dynamics, changing the situation, changing the energy levels. We'll talk more about energy, but having those breaks after 30 minutes, 20, 30 minutes of time. And then use known classroom management tools and routines. If you have young people that are all coming from similar schools or similar situations, find out what they use in their schools. And you can use some of those tools or those same responses with them in your group setting as well. And we're actually going to cover and patterns in the second as well. Great ideas in the chat, right, The agenda ahead of time. But have the youth elected leaders run the meeting. Again, it provides that respect, that power. And adding a fun element, of course, that's a huge component to meetings is fun. Business and education. Having fun is super important. Thanks for those reminders in the chat as well. Yeah, routines and patterns. It's another important thing to consider when you're thinking about your group management practices. Some of those routines and patterns that you set up and the clear expectations that are established from the start. The best thing is to start off, of course, with routines and patterns of engagement from the beginning or as soon as possible. But you can start even now if that's not something that's already been set up. But the routine is really helpful because it sets a standard of what it's going to be expected for the group. If you think about it even within ourselves, it really helps to know what's going to happen next or what the pattern is going to be in terms of the day or the flow, so that we can prepare ourselves. It helps with our self control. It helps with setting boundaries. It creates a safe environment. And this is where that agenda that was mentioned in the chat is super helpful. An agenda or a plan for the meeting because it has that structure in place of what's going to occur. We're going to have food, then we're going to do the pledge, then we're going to do the meeting, then we're going to have education. There's going to be a break in here at this time frame between, between the meeting and education. They'll be a five minute break. Whatever it is, it sets that routine and pattern of knowing when and how things are going to take place. Once you've established this routine in pattern, you really need to be consistent from session to session. It's really important to try not to deviate too much just because, again, that's the benefit of a routine in pattern is it's set, you know what to expect. It doesn't throw you off guard. It really helps if you establish rules and norms in collaboration with kids that way they have buy in that autonomy, that power, that commitment and respect as part of the process. If possible, avoid rules that only say do not really focus on some of the dues that come along with it. These are the things that we are looking for, and I'll give an example of that on the next slide. But it's also a great time to talk about expectations of what are our expectations for behaviors? What does that look like? What does the code of conduct talk about having those reminders of what the expectations are for the group. Some of those might even be established by the location that you're in, if there's expectations for safety or use of the the space. I'm seeing a couple comments. How do you handle you from varying backgrounds? Homeschool, private public? Yeah, we're going to talk a little bit about some of that. If there are specific questions, I encourage you to put some of that in the chat as well. Because we meet in the evening and have many working parents who provide a meal, start the meeting with a meal. And then hungry kids are difficult to keep focus. Good reminder, it's important to keep good food as part of it. One of the things that you can do is find out from parents what works with their young people too. If you have young people from varying backgrounds, it can be really helpful to ask what works in certain settings, particularly if you're having challenges with the young person. How do you recommend that I help keep Jimmy on track or like what are ways that Beth gets refocused? Finding out some of those strategies from parents or guardians can be really helpful as well. Here's an example is one of the things that I've used in a group is having commitments to behavior. We start off meetings not only with the pledge, but also this commitment to being respectful, inclusive, supportive, open minded, engaged, brave in ourselves. I think this is really important because it reminds young people of the dues of the situation. Another way to look at this is to even talk about what that means. What does respectful look like? What does inclusive look like? How are we open minded? How are we engaged? How are we brave? How are we ourselves asking young people to define what these look like in terms of the behaviors and expectations of what we're looking for as opposed to what we're not doing. Sometimes I'll include those knots like, we're not saying this or we're not doing this, which is fine, But it's also showing what are the behaviors we're looking for and what are the behaviors that we don't want in our group. And discussing that as a group. Yeah. Parents can be on the same page. Yes. It's really important. Respectful of letting all be involved if they want. Yes, I love that. Thank you. We're going to talk a little bit about energy level now. To get us moving on to energy level, I want you to reflect on the last four, each experience you were at. You're going to use the annotate to mark on this list of where they were during two different components of the meeting. I want you to think about that last four, each experience. And we're going to reflect, for those that you need to know where the annotate is. You'll be able to scroll up to the top of your screen and they'll be like a more button it. And then you'll click on the Annotate. It'll bring up an option, you can do text like color. There's a sticker option too. I'm trying to remember which one, the stamp, you'll probably want the stamp one. And you can pick whatever stamp you want. There's a check mark, an arrow, an X, a star, a heart, and a question mark. You're going to want to pick what you want to use. Basically what you're going to do is I want you to take a moment to reflect on what was the excitement level of the use within your four H club during the business meeting portion of it. During that business portion, where was it at? So take a moment and feel free to on the screen put, were they at the chaos? Loss of control, not listening, excitement engagement, calm, disengaged, distracted, not listening. If you can't find the button or you're not able to do, if you put in the chat which one you are, Lori, or I will mark it on the screen for you. It would be under, at the very top of the screen, it's under View Options. For those of us trying to find a view options if you click that arrow and then it provides an Anotape button. Great. I will grab your so, go ahead and type them in the chat Debbie and Mary. And I can add them. Did you get it, Christine? And do you want me to Oh, I will get that one. I can do them both. I can do them both. That's fine. I just didn't want to do it. If you did, it's okay. I was trying to think about my last four each club meeting where they were during our business meeting Clue. All right, so I'm seeing some combination. We do have quite a few of you, right? In that excitement engagement calm stage, that green section. We've got some in that not listening area. And then we have a one in the disengaged. That's during the business meeting portion. Now let's look at, I'm going to add another one in the calm. Now take the moment and reflect about when you did your education at your meeting, the educational components, where were the youth And put it on the other side of the screen. Where were youth at that time? All right, thank you. How did it I see we definitely had more people move up into the chaos and not listening phrase. We had a excitement, we had a little bit less at calm engagement. Stayed similar, but we didn't have anyone in disengaged and distracted. Why might have changed during the educational component of the meeting versus the business portion of the meeting? More interesting to kids. Yeah, I know that I had my four H club during the business meeting was more calm. We do business first. When we get to education, there's a great level of excitement and noise in the room. So interest level meant more. Yeah. More interesting to kids. Exactly. It is okay if sometimes it's not exciting and engaging and in that calm area. That's because there's transitions and it really allows that change in different pieces. We don't, we can't always be in excitement, engage and calm, but we want to try to find ways to be in that area because that's where the most learning can happen, most engagement, how they feel about activities. We have a couple of things in the chat in our group. We separate by animals and they split into smaller groups. Yeah, sometimes when we get into smaller groups, it's easier to stay in excitement, engaged in calm when we have a really big club or big groups, if they're excited about something, they're more likely to get into that chaos. Loss of control in not listening or disengaged, distracted not listening, because there's way more for them to see. Yeah. The Alison put that they have 126 kids in their club, so I feel like that they turn quickly into chaotic because they're excited, which is okay. It's good. Kids need to have that thing. And moving them back to it. When we're moving them back into that. Excited, engage it. Yeah, excitement grows as a bit closer to the activity. It's all of those pieces that we want to find the right way to be the energy level. But it's not always, it is okay to be above that good level of energy level. And it's okay at times to be below because sometimes we have business meeting information we have to share at a club and we need to share it. And maybe it's more for the parents to hear, but that is, it is okay for them to be above because they're with their friends and they're excited about the activities. That might mean they're not always paying attention as you well and not listening and it might seem like chaos. But sometimes if you take a moment and reflect back, well, it might have seemed like chaos while you were teaching it. Maybe it really wasn't chaos. They just were so noisy and so much engagement. It's really important that they're focusing on what it is. I'm going to clear the screen. When we consider the energy you bring as a leader, it's important to remember that you set the tone for how the whole group will be. If you come in excited and having a level of excitement for them, you definitely change the control, change the tone of the meeting. But if you come in and you're talking at a monotone with very little excitement and you're sharing all the business, and then you move to share the education. There's a very different tone there and a very different energy level that happens. When you think about it, it's important to set that tone and think about how you're doing and bringing it in to make a tone of what you want to the group. The energy you bring, the attitude you have, the tone, and non verbal communication uses all has an impact your volume management. If you get louder, they will get louder the more you think. If you have to talk louder, they get louder. Sometimes it's thinking at one of the things I use when I want to bring the energy down is I move to a much calmer, softer voice. As I start to slowly get more and more people's attention that can help with it. Environmental, That environment matters. Pay attention to the physical space. The bright lights, the furniture, set up your schedule, mix up the activities or move things to make the space better. You know, sometimes it's hard because we use the spaces that work for us. But think about if there is a very wide open space. You're enticing youth to want to be in that wide open space. How do you use it or how do you set things up to use it? Really think about how that environment is things and then, you know, as they get more comfortable, they get more engaged. Movement breaks, it is super important that you build in movement breaks. Laurie talked about it is ever, it's two to 3 minutes of attention span her age. So think about that in your club, if you have eight year olds to 18 year olds in your club, or even five year olds to 18 year olds in your club. That's a very widespread, you also don't want to really be over 20 minutes. So how do you build movement breaks? It could be as simple, stand up to vote if you're voting on motions in your business meeting. It could be just whatever you do or moving, we're going to move to these four corners of the room to be in small groups. Those movement breaks really are important and the variety create a plan with a variety of activities, some with low energy and some that increase energy. Always have back pocket activities ready in case you need to raise or lower the energy. Read the room and adjust as you need to be flexible and don't be afraid to have fun and joke, particularly with your older youth in your club. Make them feel excited and part of the group. The next thing is we really think about that group management and it goes into the energy level is language, uses words. Paint a picture in our heads. Paint the picture you want to have happen to do instead of what not to do. Walk instead of don't run. I always like to use the word used. This is a walking on one really helps with that. When I say do not run, they're hearing something they can't do. But if I really talk in that, be clear and specific on what does be quiet even mean I can say be quiet to my young children. And their level of be quiet, it is very different than my B level of quiet. How I have to really talk about it with them is we are using our inside voices or group talking voices, our outside voices. Or we're using our whisper voices by being clear. That's how I want them to be. When I want it to be a little bit quiet, I'm like we're using our whisper voices now. Or if we're moving to do some group work and we're going to be talking amongst each other. I'm like, it's okay to have your groupwork voices on just to really help them think about what their voice level is. Offering choices. Thinking about two or three options of what's going to be okay, instead of ultimately what you do not want it to be. Offering a choice to kids as a large group never work. You have to think about only one or two choices. But how do you create some of choices when deciding things? When Laurie brought up that be the respect and all that was developed by that can be developed by the kids in your group. How do you offer choices to build that group contract? Be careful with the word okay, or asking a question when you want to give directions, okay? Or question turns your direction into a choice. Often intentionally, really think about, don't say, okay, unless you're really okay with something. If you're trying to get question pieces, use reflective language. Say what you see them doing, and repeat back what you hear them say. Makes them feel heard and respected. If I'm seeing everyone's listening, is using our quiet voices like I've asked. That helps them know that, that behavior you expected at that moment in time. And focus on your own feelings and needs in the group. It's important to focus on I'm having a hard time hearing because it seems as if everyone's using their outside voices helps them understand that what you're asking for fits it. Then avoid any of that shaming or humiliating language, you are rude. Instead of focus on the behavior change you want, We're both talking at the same time. Everyone's talking at the same time. It makes it hard to hear what John is wanting to share to our whole group. I'm feeling frustrated because everyone is. Not following the directions that were shared. Using that focus on feeling and need and that reflective language helps piece of things go. We do have a question on here. How long do you suggest meetings go? Ideally, I think meetings should be roughly an hour or so. And we like to break it down into there's five to 10 minutes for business, five to 10 minutes for some fun. And then the rest of it really should be that educational piece. I know that some clubs meet longer than that, but really the hour or so when we're thinking about how long you are going to stay engaged for things. Now if it's a project meeting and you're working on a very specific project and it's a smaller group, you might be able to get away with longer if you do enough breaks and different things in it. It is building those pieces into it. As we start to explore some strategies for gaining or retaining attention, what are some strategies you've used in other experiences? Working with youth to gain or retain attention. How do you get attention from young people? What are some of your strategies? Go ahead and put those in the chat. A cow bell? Yeah, some people use bells. They'll ding bells together means it's time to come back together. Visuals have more people involved, especially showing the visuals. Yeah, we'll talk a little bit about visuals. A talking circle, I'm assuming that's like a item maybe that gets passed around for who gets to talk a young club. So we say 123 and they say, back eyes on me. Yeah. If you can hear me clap once you stop the activity to discuss. Okay. Yeah, good. Ask a question, then go around to each person. Okay, got it. Like the talking circle. Cool. Great. We have gathered a few additional ones. Keep adding more in the chat if you have ones. Definitely, again, this could be where you're pulling maybe from schools or other settings of what they're used to. But moving around the room and moving closer to youth, especially a young person who's maybe struggling with attention or compliance, can be beneficial. That spatial connection, it's having you near them, creates a different energy and a different focus. You can share the number of minutes left in the activity. Again, this goes with routine and patterns, letting people know how much time is left and when they're going to have to be refocused again. And knowing that that's coming up, someone mentioned visuals, the hand claps concept. If you hear me clap once, you can have people raise the hand or do the claps to get attention people, do you have to repeat the pattern back? You can use timers. That again, is another visual where young people know how much time they're going to have in this activity and can see the timer, or go look at it to see how much time is left. Oh, the quiet coyote hand symbol. That's very cool. I like that. Yes. You can use timers signals. I've also done, I'm missing X number of members paying attention right now. It's not calling out any particular youth, but I'm missing five members right now. And often they'll police each other or police themselves. Time out or a pause can be done. Someone mentioned stopping the activities. I can be like time out or pause right now. We're going to need to go over something and use that time out hand signal. Also done. I will know you're ready when your eyes are on me or when your paper is flipped over, whatever it is for the activity. So that I'm looking for that symbol. And they also know that when they're done with something or when they're completed with that particular piece, that's what the next step is. Again, with that routine and pattern. Whatever ones you end up deciding to use, the best best bet is to pick that strategy for attention and establish that as part of the routine and part of the pattern. That way everyone knows that's what's going to be done. It's not changing every time, it doesn't, you're not using four or five of these at a time necessarily, but you have your one or two that you are consistently using a timer and then I'm missing X number of participants or whatever it is, you have that established as part of your routine and pattern for your group. I know that it takes a little bit of time if you're bringing these in, is to establish them. And then it might take a couple meetings before they're really set. But once they become a set, they really are more easy for you to know what to expect and you'd like to know what to expect. Yeah, for sure. That's a great point. I mean, none of these strategies are things that are going to change in like one meeting. It's the practice and the repetition of these things that will be really helpful. You mentioned earlier the difference between praise and encouragement and how important that can be as well, and that can have an impact on the individual and group members as a whole. There's a difference between praise and encouragement and the pitfalls of evaluative praise, which are things like good job or that's beautiful, or that it's very generic. It doesn't tell anybody about what they did well and what you want to encourage in them. This comes up in behavior we've been talking about, being specific, and that's where encouragement comes into play. The other issue with praise is that it can lead to praise junkies, where you need to hear praise to feel good about yourself. It can lead to doing things for others you're doing, the young person or whoever is doing it for praise and recognition rather than it's because it's the right thing to do and that they're self motivated. Then also, it can discount their own choice in the matter. They can discount their value in the process. When you say good job, they can say something like, well, it isn't that great, but Sarah did a better job. They're discounting their own value because it wasn't specific, it wasn't descriptive. It's like there's even that sense that it's a blanket praise as opposed to being really for them. That's where encouragement comes into play. It's very specific. It's descriptive and it's focused on the things that youth can control, like their choices, their process, how they got themselves from point A to point B, or what choices they made in their behavior. It really helps in asking, of course, open ended questions. We like to say this all the time so that you're asking young people about their reflection, their experiences, their application. That also helps understanding more about what their process was and their choices. But a good example of encouragement would be something like, you worked on that for 10 minutes and didn't give up. Instead of just saying good job, you worked on that for 10 minutes and didn't give up. We are going to do a little activity on praise versus encouragement. We had a question, the chat, how many members feel about participation ribbons. That's a great question. I can't answer for members. I would say that might be something to ask young people about in your particular group, is what would make them what would be most meaningful for them, for their involvement in a program. I don't think we should get rid of participation ribbons. I think what motivates and is recognition for one person might not be for somebody else. I think that there is a varying degree of what recognition looks like. But yeah, in your group, it's not for them. And that might be true. There might be other things that as a whole, your group would rather have for recognition and engagement, for their participation, rather than a ribbon. I think keeping that in mind is really important. What are the ways that we're honoring what's meaningful to different young people? We have a couple of activities are a couple situations on the screen there to try out. How would you encourage in a situation? You want to be specific, descriptive, and focused on what the youth can control. Pick one of them. A youth shot an arrow into a target. A teen actively participated in your lesson and asked questions. Or a youth wrote a thank you note for a club donor. What's an example of encouragement versus praise? Thanks for that idea. Treat like a candy or a snack can be some nice recognition to rather than me saying good job to the youth. You wrote a thank you note for the club way to go to the youth who shot an arrow into a target. How could I give encouragement, you could say to that youth? You spent 10 minutes writing a thank you note for a club, Don. It is really appreciated, I might say for the thank you, sat down and really focused on it and ended up writing a thank you note with all seven of the steps for a great thank you note. Well done. Yeah. Your thoughtfulness is appreciated. I might even ask a question, how did it feel writing a thank you note and then build off of that? Good, Yes, you wrote was very professional and with sincerity. Oh, for the shooting the arrow, you took a deep breath and focused, and hit the target. Dedication pays off, Yes. Focusing on what they did and their behavior. What they could control. Specific and descriptive, I like it. It takes a little practice to think about the difference. Whenever I work with a large group of particularly young people, it's very easy to be like, great job, way to go, awesome, Honestly, it ends up just being this peppering of praise that goes around without really having any specific explanation of why that was a good choice or what they did in the process. Yeah, I love the concept of tying it back to the four H, like you really demonstrated your heart by helping out your friend there or writing the thank you note. You demonstrated your heart with gratitude for the people who support our program. Great job. You could end up saying great job or awesome way to go. But adding in some of that specific description of what they did and what was specific about their commitment to that task or that project or their behavior is what can shift it from just being blanket praise to being encouragement of the type of life skills that we're trying to help young people develop and finding those sparks and areas where they can really thrive. If you tied it back to the HS 13, actively participating in your lesson, asked questions, you could say, I appreciated how you used your head and really thought through and asked questions that made me think more. Yeah, that's a great one, Christine. I love that. Yeah. I've even simply said to young people, thank you for your active participation in my lesson today. I really appreciated like your non verbal communication, You were nodding your head and gave me great eye contact while I was teaching. And that means a lot to me when I'm presenting. I've even shared that with young people. And I had it happen a couple of weeks ago and I was doing breakout sessions, and the young people returned to my session and sat in the front row again. So I think those types of things are what young people are looking for in terms of that encouragement and understanding that it made a difference to you as well. Again, focusing on those feelings for ourselves and what we're sharing about expectations and behaviors that we're looking for. Great job. Youth voice is a huge component of our four age programs and you really have to give youth that opportunity to have that choice. They have to have the choice. The autonomy and the power is a component of our four age programs where we actively engage for each members in their learning and growth. In each, we can listen and value the opinions of young people. We provide space where we are as adults studies to lay down please and let them take the lead when their voice is expressed, heard, and used in the program. Not only does it lead to skill building, positive relationships, spark igniting, and confidence, it also curbs negative behaviors in the group. It's really giving them that youth voice is so important. And it can really help within group management too. Because they need to have a say in how their group is going to function, have that youth voice is part of it. As we basically to that wrap up point is a good teacher is like a good entertainer. First, you must hold his audience's attention, then you can teach their lessons. As you think about preparing for your four H meetings, you've got to figure out how you hold your youth members attention, how you get them engaged, get them excited. Then you can really get into the lessons. And some of the ways to really help with this is you figure out your tone, your voice, your energy level that helps with group management. And then you start to build in those routines and those practices that helps everyone be able to listen and participate well. We are now at the point where we've shared tips that we have from other experts, from our experiences. And we're moving into that point where we're going to really let you share the strategies that you've used or challenges that you have, so we can have some group think around those solutions. What we're going to do is I really want to thank everyone for participating today. I'm going to turn off the recording now, so if you want to unmute, you're more than welcome to do that.